waterruupto

Feb 11 '26, Wednesday

Feb 12 '26, Thursday

Feb 13 '26, Friday

Feb 14 '26, Saturday

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becoming_Chinese

14 Feb '26

3:35

Bill Murray

Phantogram

Voices

0:00

0:26

14 Feb '26

128:00·2 SPEAKERS·15346 WORDS

ABeen able to text. Been really busy just like gathering furniture from everywhere and like U Haul transferring our stuff. No, I think this was the day before you were moving and you're like tomorrow to Berkeley or into the new house in Berkeley. You were staying with Shubham for a bit and then you were starting your lease. Right. So you were texting me the night before. Tomorrow is going to be such a hectic day. We have moving planned and so many like pickups of like Marketplace furniture. And I said something like you, you said all of this. And then I was like, the shower at the end of the day will hit different. And that's when you pointed it out. You were like, how, how you always do this. You find the joy. Like you find an intangible like source of joy in any situation or something. You said like that.

BWhy don't you find intangible source of joy in our commutes, babe?

AI don't know. I don't like commute.

BFind that intangible source of joy.

AI think commutes make me anxious, if I'm being honest. Like, but just sitting, I don't know why commute makes me anxious, but I feel very anxious when I'm like sitting on a train for half an hour or I'm in a cab for half an hour. Like in Bangalore. I used to be in cabs for like hours on end and I used to feel extremely anxious. I tried everything. I tried reading then when like reading didn't work. I tried listening to music, I tried watching videos. I tried listening to podcasts that are like funny, jokey. I tried meditating during commute. I have done headspace, a non trivial and I feel.

BYeah, deeper level.

ABut it does.

BIs it close spaces?

AIt's not close places. I don't feel it on planes or trains at all. And those are strictly longer. Yeah, I have no problem with plane and train.

BSo what differences do you see between plane and this?

AI don't know.

BYou should think about it.

AI don't know. I don't think about. It's not even like so much where it gets in my life. It's. I've never not done something I want to do because I didn't want to do the commute. If I want to do something, I'll go. I went to some bum neighborhood at the end of Brooklyn to buy yarn.

BThe very fact that you're doing saying like, saying it like this means it bothered you a lot going there.

AYeah, commute irritates me just as much as like any. But the effect of it on my life is the same as someone who would be irritated by it. It's not like it pro hinders me from doing anything. If I want to do something, I'll do it. But I am quite irritated by it. I don't know what it is. Yeah. Like a long cab ride. But if I'm going on a road trip, I'm actually happy. So it's not even like the act of being in a car can also elicit very different reactions from me based on the connotation, like if I'm stuck in traffic between JFK and home versus if I'm driving from here to Boston.

BYeah. Clearly it's not. It hasn't to do with the like claustrophobia or anything.

AYeah.

BRemove that just by the plane travel. Right.

AYeah.

BIt is more about the surrounding context of the commute, about where you're going to.

AYeah.

BI'm just like flight, maybe. It's usually like it's a trip, usually maybe a vacation. So you're thinking about that. But perhaps. I don't know.

AI don't know what it is. But commute makes me angry. Like angry, anxious. I don't know. Nothing can cheer me up. I mean. But why do you say. Why do you bring it up? Like, do you think I have stopped you from doing something because I don't want.

BNo, no. You just mentioned you find intangible joy in most things and we just pulled out as a stark outlier.

AYeah. I think it's just. I'm not used to it and I've. I've sort of also made it my personality that I shouldn't have to do it because I don't like doing it. I shouldn't have to. Why should I have to?

BBut here you're questioning things. Yeah, I guess. Must viscerally irritate you.

AAlso, just because I'm like behind you on the spectrum doesn't mean I don't question things. Largely speaking, I am a very radical person in many ways.

BYeah.

AI have gone against a lot of institutional things. No one can say I'm a traditionalist.

BBut no, I think natural order. I think we're talking. Those are two different acts.

AYeah. I'm talking about society authority.

BYeah.

AI rebel against society authority a lot.

BIs it different? I don't know how to say. Oh.

AI think.

BBostrom also writes like, I think that idea. So. But how should I talk about AI, then?

AI think there's nothing you're doing wrong, but it's just a visceral reaction that comes out of Me.

BBecause. Yeah, because when I'm expressing something, I'm like, it's. It has the reason for. Never comes up. Like. Yeah, that is very. Someone would make a distinction. Right. You know the reason for. No one else does. Yeah. Yeah, no one else does.

AYeah.

BSo I'm not like saying anything. It's like that part is occluded from them.

ASo it's also dual ended where, like, there are some AI bros. Just like there were Tesla bros. Just like there were bros of. They are bros of anything who become bullish on something, who become very enthusiastic about something because the brand is. It's the hottest new thing.

BYeah, you said bullish.

AYeah, because it felt right. Like the right.

BNo, I was perfect. Only.

AI hate the idea of, like, even when you're talking to other people about.

BAI, you think that some people might think I'm an AI bro.

AAnd in some ways you are.

BYeah. But I've thought about it much deeper.

AThan I think and I worry that doesn't come across. So, like, often when we're talking to people, I'm trying to add nuance, but.

BYou don't have to. Like, I think I do that decently enough. I. I think I expect someone else to be curious for me to elucidate further.

AYeah.

BSo I don't think that needs your intervention and not.

AYeah, I agree. You do a very good job and you take care in how you articulate yourself. So I. I don't think you're doing a lacking job. But I also.

BYeah, it's your, like, feeling one.

AIt is like that instinct that sort of jumps out that, oh, I must make sure this misunderstanding is not happening. Second, regardless of how much nuance you offer, it is very easy for a listener to say, I met an AI bro at a party today.

BYeah.

ASo people will want to put you into buckets no matter what you do.

BYeah, Yeah, I agree with that.

AAnd like, that happens to me all the time. Like.

BI know I'm being an AI bro when I talk to people, but.

AI think with gender issues for years, like, if I said something, I knew that that story would. If I said something at a party, I knew that story would come back to me in a light that oversimplifies what I said in it, like, and makes me look like some social justice warrior. When I feel like I have arrived at these conclusions, not because I saw them in an Instagram post, but because I've thought about them.

BI got it. That's why I want to, like, write more, put these ideas into some Place where I can then point to people.

ABut the thing is.

BThen you have hard proof whatever people say.

AThe more you feel the need to like clearly articulate yourself, the less people are likely to actually.

BBut that's fine. Then at least you have, you are more confident about yourself. I have been cataloguing and expressing and formalizing my views. I like in the future no one's going to listen to them. They're going to listen to the person who has a consistent view view on things. They're not going to listen to someone who's always flipping, switching between judging and labeling people. You need to have a. Yeah, and.

AI fear that that isolates you, not you, that isolates one. Because if one tries to do this thing where I think you can keep.

BThings separate, like I've not been super successful at it. But your actual knowledge about the world and how you interface it with other people, in my opinion that can be like modulated, right?

ASure. But like let's take my example.

BIt'll irk you when it boggles your mind like it did yesterday where like this is the exact thesis that like antithesis of what I think. That's when it does affect you. But when it's like orthogonal to muth topic then you can just doesn't bother you. But like how you were saying?

AI was saying my example, I have certain opinions on let's say topic X. Now when topic X comes up, if I start documenting in any format, like let's say like you have, where I have like records of my thoughts, articles that I've read on the subject, everything linked and there's like a good corpus of like my knowledge, my thoughts, my opinions on the subject. Then I feel like I will be disincentivized from talking to people IRL because I feel like the corpus can express myself better than I can verbally right now. Because obviously that has taken time and effort and is well articulated versus like whatever I say right now won't represent a collective complex set of ideas. And I don't ever want to devalue imperfect real conversations. Like I don't think I ever put the absolute accurate expression of complex ideas above an actual conversation. Like I think I always put actual conversation first, even imperfect. And so I think recording my ideas in that format would make me not want to talk to people irl.

BWhy?

ABecause of what I just said.

BI didn't understand that.

AThat I feel like in those conversations that once I have this yeah, I feel like whatever I say will not be good enough.

BSo that, I mean that Is a skill. Like, yeah, it will never be good enough. There is a base entropy level that those many bits just cannot identify.

AYeah.

BSo. So then what's your point? Like, how is that a point? Like, yeah, that's a theoretical impossibility.

ASo you're saying you should start documenting things and.

BYeah. Like, how is that. Like, how is correcting this corpus affecting your everyday conversation about that topic?

AI just said no. K. It might make me want to have those conversations less.

BWhy?

ABecause I don't want to express myself.

BI don't know. I feel like you can have a. At different lengths. You can have what your. You can dimensionally reduce it and have Kiha. If someone was to ask me in one sentence what I think about AI progress. It's going to be transformative. In three sentences, it's going to be transformative. It can be really good for humanity. It can be really bad for your. In seven sentences. I think you need to have in.

AReal conversation the questions never come up or these opportunities.

BYeah, I agree.

AAs easily that you can, like.

BI agree with that.

ASomething like that.

BNo one's curious mostly.

ANo one asks you questions.

BNo one asks you. No one's really engaging.

AExpress your opinion to some ongoing conversation. And so you're seguing it in. Into it, like already halfway through.

BYeah.

AAnd then you're responding to something with an idea.

BAnd so I don't know, like, why. It just. I don't understand, like, how does that affect. Or in fact, it gives you clarity about what to say, I guess, rather than. Yeah, abhi, you're just generating noise. When you have some backing data, you have some clarity about what you're talking. It's grounding you a little bit.

AOn a tangent, I think this con. I mean, we're not really talking about anything in particular, Right?

BYeah.

AYesterday at the party, Choksi was telling me about dating. He. I've been sort of dating again.

BYeah. He also one time dropped on me. I think I was. I don't remember where, like maybe a month or two ago. Oh, yeah. Now I have to find a partner. Like. Like, see Malab, he's never vocalized that preference. He will want a partner. I didn't. I just assumed he likes the single life or whatever. I mean, he doesn't like the single life, but having a partner is not a goal of his. Yeah, I didn't know that till like two months ago. Like, okay, I had. Wow.

AYou're like. Your version of Choksi is so different from the reality that it's blowing My mind.

BI mean, I would. I assumed he's an Indian guy and, like, he knows that eventually he will get married. But. But that baseline prior to Thai.

ABut this is your prior.

BThat is my prior.

AOkay.

BAnd. And like, two months ago, he mentioned I need a partner. So now I'm thinking he's a little serious about it.

AOkay. Wow.

BThat's all I know.

AYou don't know anything about him. Yeah, I guess because, like, one of Choksi's, I would say, top two or tops insecurity in life is that he's never had a girlfriend. I would say that is, like, one of his top three insecurities, but that.

BDoesn'T correlate with what I'm saying.

AAnd so he. I mean, for many reasons, he wants companionship, but one of them for years has been just to prove to himself and whatever other people that he can have a girlfriend. And he's been desperate to get a girlfriend. And every time someone turns him down, he has a whole mental breakdown of, why can't I get a girlfriend? Why don't women want to see me more than two or three dates? Why can't I go from dating that women okay with seeing me once, but.

BNot bro, but must be hard, man. Like, imagine yourself in his position.

AI have a lot of empathy for him.

BIt's. Is it brutal, bro?

AIt's brutal.

BBrutal for your confidence.

AIt's brutal for your confidence. Especially, like, I have never had my confidence take a hit because I only was single in India, and in India, I was a girl, which already is very advantageous. And I was attractive. Above average attractive. So I never. I wasn't the most desirable person, but, like, I also had no shortage of like. Like attention.

BYeah. I mean, it's unimaginable to us. I mean, me also, yeah, I saw it and I also felt new. I would do fine. Like, I was like, I'm fine. I can, like, express myself better than these. I look fine, so I'll be fine. That also, like, like, like, if this has a girlfriend, I'll be fine. Like, so I had that confidence.

ABut I think the way Choksi sees it is, bro, Uski, girlfriend. Something's very wrong with me, bro.

BIt's very hard. Like, I can't imagine because this is also such a primal hit to your psyche. No. Gender wise, like, like, you're literally looking for a mate. You were programmed for this and not getting that.

AI mean, biologically and socially, both. And it's a hit. Like, so many. Especially for someone who's now almost 30 years old and has never had a girlfriend, which is highly unusual. Like, at least by this age people have had a relationship. I don't know about that.

BI don't know.

AI mean, at least people who want to. Yeah, like, sure. Indians who always know arranged marriage, maybe they don't. But want a girlfriend, usually are able to get one.

BYeah, I, I guess.

AAnd people figure it out.

BI don't know about that. I wouldn't know. It could vary from 20 to 80.

ASure.

BSo it's a lot of.

AI was talking to him yesterday and he was telling me about Shruti. So basically for the last many months he's had strong feelings for Shruti which is why briefly he stopped dating like for three or four months. He stopped swiping altogether because he knew he was like too attached to Shruti to even entertain the idea of someone else. And like, he went to India and like there he really hit it off with someone. Like he met this person two times, three times consistently. And despite that, he's come back to the us like, despite having met this person so many times, no feelings come back, still attached to Shruti. And like is constantly hanging out with Shruti will drop all plans. Like, he gave me so many examples yesterday of like, things he does for her. For example, she hinted in some conversation that she might be open to hang out this week. And she said to Ayman at the bungalow dinner that if you need help moving, let me know. So she must have been. They met at bungalow dinner, whatever, first time maybe. And so she offered help and so she must have texted choksi ki ha, let me know. Kya weekend ka plan hai. And so he tried to convert that into a plan to meet just her and she turned him down for that. So. And, but then he was like, bro.

BClearly she's not interested.

AShe's not interested. That's what I've been trying to tell him.

BI mean, if it was. Yeah, it happens. If it has to happen, if it.

AHas to happen, it happen because it's.

BIt'S not going to last for six months and then happen.

AYeah, he's like, what? But what if there's a small chance that she's just. She, she's not rejecting me. But what if she's just undecided?

BNo, bro, she's decided.

ABut how to tell him that. I tried to tell him. I've tried so many times to tell him, bro, she knows and she's telling you something. I've said this much, I've said she's telling you something. She's trying to tell you something.

BHow long has this been?

AMonth, at least since.

BSeptember, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember him. Clearly. He's like, treating him as a backup at. At the best possible case.

AI know I'm her closest friend in New York. Like, even more than the. That. Like that girl Richa who was at Choksi's Halloween party. He's like, I know I'm close. I'm the closest person she has in New York now that Abhi's not here.

BBut clearly she likes you. She likes your company, but not romantically. Doesn't think you're good enough, basically.

AYeah. For whatever reason. But she's also. See, the thing is, she doesn't. Also bisexual.

BOkay.

ASo who knows? Like, maybe there's just. She's not into men right now or she's like, dating women and we don't know.

BYeah, whatever. You're not. Like, she's not.

AShe's not into it. And I think that's obvious. And he also knows it, but you know how he goes into the spirals. But what if there's a small chance and like, you're never going to say to someone's face, there's no chance she's explicitly telling you she's not interested. And no one's ever going to say that point.

BYeah. If your friend, like, I don't know, I mean, depends on how the question was asked. If you're. I mean, wouldn't people explicitly say, no, Choksee, I don't want to date you if you say ask can.

AThat's what I was like, you can ask her if you think there is a chance you can ask her. But he's like, if I ask her, then what if it becomes weird? Whatever. And what if she says no? Then I'll be so hurt. Of course you'll be.

BYeah, of course you'll be hurt.

AI mean, yeah, I think he basically doesn't want to get hurt, but wants to know, but doesn't want to get hurt, but wants to know, but doesn't want to get hurt.

BBut I mean, wants to know. Wants it to not end. Like, yeah, Joby, slim probability. He's just hanging on to that.

AHang on to that hope. And then I was like, jokes like, you can't just go on a date gate and then expect that to click and that become the reason that you get over Shruti. Like, you can't get over people like that. To get over someone, you really need to, like, put some distance between you and Them so that you can, you know, successfully forget them.

BYeah.

AThat is how you move on from someone. And. And he's miserable. He's miserable. He loses.

BHe should. I think pragmatic advice for me would be if you want to ever convey it to him. Your expected value is just better in the market right now. You can just date more and probably find a match in the time you're spending on her.

ABut the thing is he's like, I can't imagine losing her friendship. Like I can't imagine losing.

BSo this is better, right? Like put some distance while maintaining the friendship while you date other people. She's not. She's not.

AThe thing is if he's talking to her and she's like talking about his favorite books, favorite movies and he's like, oh, so he won't be able to get over her. Putting distance means not talking to her for at least a while so that he stops like looking at her with heart shaped eyes.

BNo, I think just being distracted via like another.

ABut every date he goes on, he sits and then he compares that person to Shruti and that person's not good enough.

BSo through a time like how many dates has he been on? Like it's not going to be months.

AHe's been dating for months now. India said, I don't know.

BLet's ask him. Like you ask him. I think you need to keep going.

AYou can ask him, baby. Like he wouldn't ever mind sharing with you also. In fact, I think there is a way that boys can connect that maybe I cannot with him.

BYeah. I think you should just like realize what the situation is.

AAnd I think he realizes but by not doing anything about it he still gives himself that like little hope.

BHe needs a pragmatic solution. I think like I think this girl.

AHas basically turned him down.

BYeah.

AAnd he needs to just accept that and move on.

BYeah. And if he still wants the friendship, he has to take the effort of weaning off.

AYeah.

BShe won't do it. Like she is already weaned off. Like she hasn't done anything.

AShe hasn't done anything and she has nothing to lose.

BYeah.

AIf this friendship is serving her, why would she want to change anything?

BYeah. So you have to just get rid.

AOf the friend that she can do things with.

BYeah.

AThe only person who didn't establish since will serve is Choky provided.

BVerma send me $5.

AVerma send 23.$5.

BHe sent. No.

AYeah, his text is from half an hour ago. I think also it's. I Don't know. I feel like Choksi is also not particularly. He's not got those skills. Like you have some amount of charm. You know how to float. You flirted with me. You. You were charming. I don't know if he has those skills or maybe I can never see him in that light. But I also don't think I. He has those skills. Like I don't think he's a smooth talker. I have never seen him being smooth even at a party. But maybe it's because never charming at a party. Like a little bit you can gauge know where someone's like extrovert self or like someone's skills shine at a social gathering. But like Choksi just gets nervous at a party. Self effacing.

BBut I think my belief is in the city like New York, there is someone for everyone. Like you'll find a decent enough fit in the city. So I don't think Choksi needs to change. He maybe just needs to date more and lower his standards. You're not hitting anyone. You need to reduce the threshold.

AYeah.

BLike I. Yeah. I mean Choksi can also improve his skill. But like realistically that's hard now. Like how do you develop that skill? Right? Yeah. It. He is actually in the playground of developing that skill.

AYeah. And I don't know if he has.

BHe must have learned, bro. Like, those are my koibi's cheese. You don't know. I think I would like to think.

ABut like. Start care. This is my new thing. This is my new thing. I do this and I'm like, buddy, like this is the kind of thing that the person it would work on is not going to be a person you like. Like it would never work on someone like me. I would laugh at you if he ever tried something like this at me and never see you again. And I am theoretically like my humor, my taste is the type of person he's trying to meet. And he's just not bancy on that level. Like the bands he can do with us, he just doesn't pull that out in company. The same joke, bro.

BBut also someone I also feel like. Yeah, like. I don't even think it's like I.

AWas feeling bad yesterday. Like he was just genuinely heartbroken and scared of being hard at the party. He was just telling me about the whole thing. Which it was Bhakti's party, bro. Like we were old people at like all these environments.

BWhich things were Shruti. But what is the new development?

ANothing. So many instances of him giving her room to like reciprocate and satisfy some manner. And how he dates for her. How he a band drops everything at the smallest hint from her.

BYeah.

ALike she indicates we can plan then whole week he'll cancel hinge dates. He'll cancel anything on the off chance she becomes free. And then she'll say no. If it's like a one on one thing, she'll just say no.

BSo clearly we'll.

AI agree.

BTrue. It's very like. That is not even a debate.

AAnd obviously she knows he likes.

BYeah. At this age you are not. You understand some things like that, bro.

AWe've understood for decades now.

BYeah.

ALike you knew I liked you in Kota. You were not. Not aware when I confronted you.

BYeah, I wasn't that aware. Like honestly like. I mean it's a spectrum I would say.

ABut you turned like.

BLike you seemed prepared.

AIf.

BIf not really maybe. I don't know. It's been a long time. Also actually I just remembering how I think I felt which if Choksi should be at 100, I was at like 60 or 70 or so. Chokshi should be an honorable.

AYeah, but he was me in this situation and you were Shruti.

BYeah.

ASo I. I felt pretty confident that you knew.

BYeah. I mean but I'm telling you where I think I was.

AOkay, you didn't. You didn't know for sure.

BI told you. 60, 70, more than 100.

ANot even like a 80 to 90.

BNo.

ADamn. I thought like it was established we are doing something here.

BNo, it was never like that for me. Like I enjoyed talking but it was not that.

ABut the amount we talked and like I felt like a bunch of times you said things that were overtly flow like maybe.

BYeah, I'm underestimating right now.

AMany times you were like outright flirting with me.

BOh. Because I also. That has happened with me also. Exactly.

AWhich is you've been interested in someone and they've not.

BYeah. And they have like overtly flirted with me as well. And who's this?

AWhat's her name on social sitcom.

BNo. Arushi. But I mean don't you know the whole thing like in je time you.

AWere interested and she was.

BShe was also very flirty. Right. That's why I was engaging so much.

AOh yeah.

BShe used to behave like. At least in my perspective she used to behave that. Yeah. She also likes me. I also like type feeling. And then it was a shock. No.

AAnd she said like that she's not interested.

BNo. That Sheila loves Ashish Dubai, huh? Yeah. I Mean, I've told you this before, right.

AMaybe I forgot multiple times. Maybe I just block it out for my pain because, like, I don't know, I just. I mean, personal vendetta against her.

BYou heard this many times? At least two times, I feel. But yeah, so. Yeah. And I was pretty heartbroken at the time. And this was in 11.

AShe was surprised. She didn't know that you had feelings.

BNo. I mean, even if she acts surprised, there could be no possible confusion there. So I'm just saying I've also been in that situation where you think it should be. No. No confusion at all.

AAnd yeah, like when you came to Bangalore and I felt confident that you like, you're only hitting me up to hook up with me. And then you were like, no, I actually like you. That was a shock to me. But did you think I thought. Did you think I knew?

BI don't remember. I don't think. No. All of this was not crossing my mind much this time because I was just a little nervous and afraid, that's all.

ANo, you. When that time only when we were hooking up or whatever and I said something to the effect of yeah, like, whatever, you've just come for a booty call. Or like you've just come to hook up. And you were like, no, I actually like you. And you were quite surprised that I had the idea that it was just.

BI think, yeah, I was just not. I hadn't hooked up before with anyone and it wasn't something that I would ever thought I will ever do.

AWhich is why that's so curious. I thought you would be very pro. Hooking up because of just your.

BNo, I'm like indifferent to hooking up. I don't think it's a big thing. And which is why I think. I don't know. Yeah. Ustem. I didn't even know, like I hadn't ever hooked up with someone. So I didn't even think. Know if it was appropriate to indicate that to you. Like, what if you took offense? You're an actually good friend of mine. What if you took offense at the fact that I asked indicate a hookup? Like, yeah, that was my feeling. Like, I didn't even know. That is something I could do with girls, basically. Or with friends who. Girls.

ASure. That I can just like indicate the casualness of the. Yeah.

BYeah. I didn't know that. So it was clearly not that.

AYeah. Like yesterday also I was trying to tell him that you are not the only person to have experienced heartbreak. I have also experienced heartbreak and I Know that when someone's going through a heartbreak situation, telling them that I know what it's like is the wrong thing to do. But I was like, you are not the only one who's, like, not had, like, their feelings be reciprocated. And the only way to move on from them is, like, you actually put some distance between you and that person. Otherwise, how will you ever get over them if you're always talking to them and every day you're reminded of how perfect they are for you and whatever, how will you move on? I drank this much soju last night. Yeah. So I was trying to tell him, you're not the only one to have gone through heartbreak. Like, I have been through heartbreak. And I know that it's an awful feeling. Feeling. And I'm trying to be gentle with you, but at some point, you have to stand up for yourself and say, I don't want to continue the cycle of misery because you are miserable. Every time she turns you down for a plan, you get heartbroken. That is misery. You make yourself available to her, and she turns you down. That is a rejection every week. And you have to stop torturing yourself like that. But I don't know how to get that across to him. That, like, it will hurt.

BBe direct.

AIt will hurt. But, like, you have to sort of get through it.

BYeah.

AAnd then he texted me today morning also. He's like, meha, you can be direct with me. Don't ever feel like you have to mince your words with me.

BYeah, I will be direct. Like, I think at this stage of friendship, you need to be direct.

ABut I was pretty direct. He just.

BI mean, if you. If you're going to have to say. I was like, you wouldn't be asking me if I can be direct. Like, you wouldn't be asking me if you had a doubt about your directness. Right?

AI don't have a doubt about my directness. I'm just telling you, like, my conversation with him last night and how I kind of feel bad for him. He's. Yeah, that's struggling.

BBut I think why he's also not found a way to get better like that. So that's the pro.

ALike, that's something that is, I think, a real problem.

BWhich there is a way which is to start diverting your energy. Yeah. Into the market, basically.

AYeah. It seems crass to say it like that, but, yeah. Like, I've seen him go through the exact same heartbreak with so many different girls with. I forget her name. But that girl from Mumbai at the Old girl from Mumbai, Bangalore. What's her name? Potluck.

BI don't know the girl you're talking about.

AAnyway, this family friend from Bangalore, then this CMU girl, Shamita. Exact same heartbreak that's happening with Shruti where like he becomes very close friends with this person, is spending so much time, drops everything to become available for them. And this person never agrees to one on one hangouts. Even the slight, slightest like romantic advance from Choksi is kind of ignored or spurned. Which is any girl's like direct way of saying look, I'm not interested in this. And like I think I got tired of the games after a point and I reached that stage where I was just being very direct about what I wanted with the people I was interested in or not interested in. Whereas I don't think he's reached that stage. He's not ever able to be direct and like express his feelings like to him. I think he's just not done it. He's maybe done it once in his life. He's told someone that I actually like you. He's never like, I've done it so many times. I've told so many people that I'm interested or I'm not interested that it doesn't scare me to be honest about my feelings. But he just never wants to address things.

BWhite. I'm waiting for white.

AI wonder if I could knit with this yarn held like triple or four times.

BFour times already. Eight times in fact.

AYeah. The mohair that I'm using is this thickness.

BOh yeah. Actually.

AI mean then.

BBut mohair acts like a secondary thing.

ANo, it's not in this work. Yes. But people make like. Should I I show you what I'm making next?

BFine.

AI will show you. Not the wall hanging.

BI will show you but concept.

ABut this is what I'm interested in making next. So you hold like even though the yarn is thin, you do it on a big needle which creates a very lightweight and holy thing. But isn't it cute? Looks same thing in black. And like the front has these buttons, bro.

BBut this garment is very.

AAnd the back is this black one.

BEspecially looks like Massage Lady Vibes.

AMassage Lady Vibes.

BFirst Valley image.

AMassage Lady Vibes?

BYeah, something they wear like a robe. It looks like a cheap robe.

AY.

BLook at it.

AI'm looking at it and looks so cool to me. It looks so cool to me.

BMaybe I didn't see it. In that one image. Starting image. The way it's draping on her and it's Going little low. And I don't know, it looks like massage lady gown type thing.

AMassage lady is so specific. Also.

BI mean, it's not supposed to be special.

ALike scraps pen.

BThey would do scrubs.

AYeah, I don't associate any garment with massage ladies.

BNot even massage lady. Bro.

ALike, if you said lemon stealing horse, I get it. It's more lemon stealing whores than massage.

BNo, it's not.

AIt's more lemon stealing whores than massage leaves.

BNo, it's not.

AI want you to think I'm well dressed.

BI mean, maybe pictures.

AI don't know. I'm just. Maybe I'm also very into, like, Asian style.

BYeah. And because, like, I mean, this picture looks really good.

AI'm making it in, like, a denim blue.

BOkay. Yeah, I can go with the denim. Yeah, it could. It'll work well with then.

AYeah. I don't know. White bala yarn is already booked for a different project and go up changeable. Unless that project. I do half white, half blue stripes, But wall hanging.

BLet's watch something. We didn't watch if we finished the Kamba Show.

AYeah. Then we started some other. Watched a whole episode of News Laundry.

BOh, yeah.

AStarted that Gaurav Kapoor poker show. To prove the point. This looks like photos.

BIt took you forever, bro.

AI hadn't labeled him, so I couldn't search him. And that is my only way of traversing my photos because I've taken the time and effort to label everyone. I've never had this happen before where I found someone not labeled. Like, I can show you my. There's just a. Like, I'm an og classifier of things.

BPhotos, folder, everything.

ALike, I even have my memes classified.

BI've also done this, but I think. Yeah, you're into files and folder organization. And I'm more into the concept of automating. Yeah, automating. Organizing also. But not just.

AI had memes about movies. So there is a books, cartoons, movies and TV within that. The memes are classified by.

BWait, these are memes?

AYeah, Show.

BNo show some meme show. Like, movie specific memes.

AYeah. Because, like, if I watched a movie, then I would go just like how you go to the subreddit and.

BOh, you were manually doing it. Basically.

AYeah. This is like from quota.

BYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Organized instead of.

AIf there was a code that I liked, I would have it in the folder.

BYeah. Series. Basically.

AYeah.

BBack up early.

AHard drive bro.

BBackup girl.

AWhere are we?

BStories.

AAs they just begun to fall. Again. My God, I have memes for. I hadn't even seen. I've never seen Doctor who. I have more than a dozen pictures saved under Doctor who. I've never. I don't even know what's in it. Like it's bad. It's not good. I can't show it to you. It's cringy to me.

BCringe humor memes. What is it?

AYeah.

BPlease, let me see a little bit. Little bit. Show me. Just vibe check. Okay.

AI can't.

BListen, listen.

AOh, my God. Harry Potter folder is huge.

BDid you know about that? Do you know about Mexicribe?

ANo.

BThe Harry Potter fandoms. Harry Hermione versus Harry.

ADon't say Hermione. Please stop saying Hermione.

BHarry Hermione and Harry Gina Genie, Ginny. Have you. Did you know about the epic online battle between these two groups? Probably happened before your timeline. No.

AWait, what are you saying? I know that Harry Hermione is a ship? Yes.

BNo. There's a fanfic around these two stories.

AThere are many fanfics, but there are.

BTwo main groups, okay. That and their rivals online. Rivals, okay, that. People who want her to.

APeople who ship cannon and who ship the ship.

BWhatever.

AYeah.

BAnd who was violent at one point. They were exposing each other. Blackmailing each other.

AJesus Christ. No, I don't know all this.

BI thought I. Yeah, maybe it's not that famous if you don't know it.

AI mean, might have been. I'm. I was also.

BBut you were into fandom and stuff. Fan fandom and stuff. Fan fiction and stuff. Right. So. Okay, okay, tell. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Tell me, tell me LS. Not here. Root directory. My LS road directory.

AActors and celebrities, fans and singers.

BWait. Road director photos. Okay.

ABooks, cartoons, movies and tv. Basically media. Yeah, I icn personal random.

BOkay, I want to go to cd.

ANo, you're not doing control.

BSee the actors and celebrities.

AOkay, this is not classified. Every image is just named.

BOh, knife your ditch. Then go back to.

AThe thing is, also, I had such bad access to Internet that if I. Yeah, like I. I would get patchy access once in a while. So I had to download things to have access to them.

BYeah. What was the second one? Third was media. Second one?

ABands and singers. Okay ls not possible ls not possible. Baby Bhaads are there all books, movies.

BTV shows ls head -10 -n 10.

AOkay. 500 Days of Summer 10 Things I Hate about you Walk to Remember Artemis Fowl Authors Batman, Beyblade, Breaking Bad, Calvin and Hopes Captain America. That's 10.

BWe reached C. Go to actors, Authors.

AAuthors, Authors. Now it's just images.

BAmazing. Okay, let's go back. Go to Calvary.

AI didn't feel embarrassed about showing.

BOf course. Go to. Go to Calvin and Hobbs LS there's.

AOnly one image here.

BJust the COVID This is the COVID.

AOf the Revenge of the Baby Sad.

BBottom. Okay, top 10.

AX Men. Tom and Jerry, Titanic, Tinker Poe. I had a huge Tinkerbell face. Vampire Diaries. Sweet Life of Zack and Cody. Perks of Being a Wallflower. Mortal Instruments. All of this is the Mortal Instruments incredibles. Hunger Games. We've not crossed T. We're like halfway.

BThrough T. Hunger Games.

AWith T. The Hunger Games, everything is duh.

BOh, wait, I forgot. Suit Life of Zag and Cody.

AThere's two.

BWhat? Two.

ATwo images. I cried when I saw the scene when the show aired.

BOh, like seriously?

AYeah, because she was leaving like it was the end of the show. Yeah, and like Mosby had been basically a dad to her.

BOther one.

AOther one, bro.

BSpace use curly. Ha. Preview.

AOh, same one, but with a caption this time.

BWhat is the caption?

AThe relationship between these two is far more interesting than just about anything Disney Channel has ever produced. There's also some meta folders. Like there is a folder.

BActually, there's a folder.

ANo, I can't. No, I cannot admit to it.

BPlease, please. No, you're. I think you're over exaggerating how bad it is.

ANo.

BYeah, it can't be that bad, bro.

AAnd like, just the name. Enough is enough.

BYou can't.

ANo, baby, I cannot. I cannot admit to this.

BIt can't be as bad as we've already hyped it.

AIt is. It's worse.

BIt can't be.

AAnd the thing is, if it gets opened, this is it for me. You will never think I'm cool again.

BWe are only hyping it more and more. It can't be overhyped now.

AOh, no, I'm just taking a sample. Oh.

BMeta. You've not even told me what it is.

AYeah, it's. It's inadmissible.

BIt's not to which court? To which court?

ACourt.

BIt's inadmissible to which code? Like laughter code, cringe code. Like coolness code, coolness code.

AIt is inadmissible because I am. To other people. I'm a cool person. Cannot. I cannot. I cannot admit to this. I can't admit to this.

BPlease, let me just tell me the meta folder at least.

AI cannot admit to it. No, it's not possible. Sorry. Maybe some. Maybe 10 years later I'll be less embarrassed.

BAri, bro, this is already 12 years ago. More than that.

AAnd I'm very embarrassed.

B13 years ago, you change every five years.

ADo you still see this? You think I'm cool even though my past has this.

BYeah, you have not showed me. I will think you're cool despite that.

ABut you'll have to prove it. Despite.

BDespite even my childhood.

ANo, you're not embarrassed of your childhood.

BYeah, yeah, yeah, I am, bro. I want to find, like, weird on my old, like, many people running meme folder. Some of them are really good. I cannot admit to this, but I must have made some bad luck Brian memes.

AWhat is bad luck Brian the guy, bro.

BBad luck Brian the OG macro images.

AAre, like, things I've not heard of, bro.

BYou heard of this guy? Bad luck Brian image macros.

AOh, this guy. But this is not cringe. This was culture, I guess mine was also culture.

BThat. It. It can't be, like, overhyped at this point. Now it's only going to disappoint. So you've already achieved your goal of minimizing it.

AYou have to admit to it, and then you will tell other people.

BI won't tell other people.

AYou can't tell other people.

BYeah, I won't tell other people.

APinky promises.

BI won't tell other people.

AUncross your legs.

BYou really think I'm the kind of person who keeps promises?

AUncross your legs.

BYou okay?

ASay it.

BYou think I do. It's not that bad. It can't be that bad.

AThe nail is already so bad.

BDo I know this? Do I know of it?

AIt's a concept, so you'll get it. And as soon as you get it, it's over for me. It's. It's. God.

BJust show it to me.

AIt's called multi fandom.

BOkay. I don't know what that is.

AOkay. Multi fan. It was a very popular aesthetic at the time where you would take multiple fandoms. Let's say I can just show you.

BBro, like, you just overhyped it way too much. This sounds very normal right now.

ANo, this, this. No. This is also not the. I want to get a good representation of the genre. Generalize.

BYeah, I get what you're saying. Just. But are they all, like, hyping up to, like, how legendary these things have been, or are they from different. Different emotions?

AThey're different emotions. Some of them are like.

BHow is.

AThis, like, a joke across multiple universe? Like, if Harry met Percy he would make this kind of joke.

BSo this is very normal. Like, how is this embarrassing? This takes effort. Were you making these?

ANo.

BYou were just collecting?

AI was just collecting.

BBut I mean, I think it's early forms of pattern recognition, like, where you start finding the same thing in all of these great other movies.

AIt was okay.

BWhy do you think it's embarrassing?

ABecause it was at the time multi fandom referred to a very specific set of, like, shows and movies, predominantly Supernatural, Sherlock and Doctor who. So the Internet was saturated, but not.

BThat Harry Potter was.

AYeah, because those. I didn't get into any of those shows. I haven't watched Doctor who, haven't watched Super Supernatural, watched Sherlock.

BWhy were you into this fandom?

AYou said so multi fandom, like, this concept of like, crossover posting was much more in them. And that's where the culture of making this type of post originated from that, like Tumblr as like Tumblr core aesthetic of like these text posts or like these modified images with that filter added. And they're not even good. Like, most of them are not good. It's not good.

BI hadn't even heard of multipando, but it sounds like a.

AThis, this image is an image of Rapunzel as various characters from different books I've read.

BYeah, this is very common. No, I guess, like, I've also seen some versions.

AI don't know. It's also very embarrassing to admit how earnestly I was a part of fandoms and how openly I admitted to myself that I like these things enough to, like, download these images that are cool not because they're making a good joke, but cool because they're referencing two things regardless of quality.

BI mean, that sounds like early potential in memes. Like you had a good future in memes. That's all it sounds like to me.

AI do think, like, because I've been so much on the Internet, because I've.

BSpent so long, it's literally the thing that meme makers look at. Right. They're trying to remix to ideas.

AAnd like, I mean, I know.

BSo this is literally.

AI know I'm good at the Internet.

BYeah.

AI have no. And I know that my. Regardless of how I feel about the quality, I know that, like, I have seen various eras, understood various trends, understood Internet culture in some manner.

BYeah.

ABecause of me taking an interest in these communities online.

BYeah. I. Yeah. Then why would you be embarrassed?

AI am embarrassed. I don't know.

BYou just explained how you honestly think.

AI don't think these things are cool anymore. Everything about it is uncool to me. The things that I like, then I don't like.

BI think you're viewing them as the things you liked and not the skill you had.

AI never look at myself that charitably.

BBut not even the skill. But the pattern of behavior, rather than what your focus was. Your pattern of behavior is not embarrassing. Right. You were curious about whatever was exposed, exposed to you at that time.

AYeah.

BSo you should be like, oh, I was more curious than other people. Yeah. I was just not exposed to the right things. But at that time, I was organizing things. I was more curious. Maybe the things that I was exposed to, those are the admirable things that you should think about. Right. I don't think a lot of us have control over what we get exposed to. How we process those things is what matters.

AI mean. Yeah, but I'm also incapable of thinking myself charitably like that. Like, I could never say something like that about myself.

BWhat prevents you.

AI don't think it. My only thought to this folder is, I liked bad things. And this is such a earnest liking of things that are not actually good. And this is so much. You know, like how it's funny when that person said, I have the meme printed out somewhere. This feels like that. Like, oh, I have the image downloaded somewhere. Like, I downloaded these images. That's embarrassing. Like, I think about everything that embarrasses me about this folder. I don't see anything of anything about myself. That is good.

BThat's so weird because I literally am in the same position and I am very proud of my, like, the ability. It doesn't even matter what's in there anymore. It's just I. I see it and I remember a time where I was curious in that domain. Nobody was doing meme storage, downloading and categorizing. I was doing it because I cared enough to do that thing. We're literally in the same situation. My memes are just different from yours.

AYeah. But I don't know, maybe. Maybe what also happens is I'm able to, one, show you more grace than I'm able to show myself in that I'm able to think, yeah, his likes of the time are of the time. Obviously he doesn't have the same taste today. And also, I still think of your culture then as more niche and therefore more cool than mine. Because my culture is so ubiquitous to me, I was like, I was just like every other girl at the time. And that's because my Internet was quite saturated by this content. Even though I guess it is its own niche. Maybe not as small as your niche.

BBut it is also a niche. It's also like other people around you weren't doing this. Yeah, they weren't engaging. Essentially. Engaging is what makes art interesting, right? Yeah, it's not just.

ABut I. I don't think of myself as the type of person who would make art more interesting. I don't think anyone would find art more interesting because I had something interesting to say about it. I don't think of myself that way.

BNo. But that's not what we're talking about anyway. We're talking about how much you pride yourself in engaging with things. And you should be proud that you engaged in things more than other people engage in anything else. It doesn't matter what the thing is. Being passionate about and engaging in that thing is what. What is different about you and feel good about that.

AI don't even think about it and therefore I feel no pride in it. I. Now, if. If you were to say this to me about someone else, I would have thought of that praise myself and I would have said it also. And I would have agreed with you when you say it. I don't think that about myself, that I was doing something novel at the time that I was. That I had with. However, the Internet looked then when it was not as easy to find communities which shared a very specific type of content that I was getting interested in. And I was still able to find that content despite not having good tools to search for very specific content. Like, those are things that are interesting and cool and like, show curiosity and effort. But I don't think that way about myself. Also, because there is just on the Internet, I'm also aware of the lens that gets put on these things that end up being things that are liked by A younger people and B women and sometimes an intersection young women. Anything that's liked a lot by young women is never viewed kindly. And so there is some amount of like, sexism in how I view this stuff. Also, like, oh, there's such young girl and young girl core is silly. And I don't think that gets attached to like 4chan.

BHmm. But it has another identity.

ANo one's embarrassed or no one thinks 4chan's embarrassing at the way people think Tumblr is embarrassing and cringe like 4chan is.

BWhat you're just saying is in my case, it's like that, but it still doesn't. What my point is, independent of what we were doing, that activity is like, why focus on the activity at all?

AIt's A combination of all those things. I'm trying to say it's not. I. I don't see the one nice thing about it. I see the hundred cringe things about it.

BI don't know, I just think, why? Like I said, you don't control what you were exposed to. So how you engage with whatever you're exposed to is what defines you more than what you were.

AI guess. Like for example, I know that I've always been the person who finds a topic I'm interested in and then I find out more about it and then I take it up as a project and whatever I do it in, I know this about myself. I also know this about you. But since you came into my life, other people started assuming that this happens because of you. To me, like I've started doing it because of you. I know that's not true.

BI mean, I would say it is a little bit true. Like not in a way that you are thinking they're thinking, but in a way that I think is more wholesome. Which is like we do encourage each other.

AWe do encourage each other. And you definitely encouraged me with certain activities. But it's not like that was absent from my life. Like, I know that there are many things that I have been personally interested in that I treated as projects. Like for example, coloring my hair.

BYeah, yeah, exactly.

AFor example, anything like learning how to blow dry and straighten.

BBut some things we did share, like. Yeah, like going to the gym or painting and same way like I started reading. So I think that was a nice virtuous circle that we had that actually did induce some things. Even in me, even in you. They were productive for both of us. Like I feel. I don't think individually we would have been doing that much. But yeah, that's beside what you were saying.

ASo I feel some amount of self doubt that am I actually interesting in that? Am I a person who has interests or is this just a property that I have picked up from Srajan? Am I a copycat? Like, I know with evidence that I can prove that it's not true, but I do have some amount of self doubt about that. And then my own parents think, and they've never explicitly said anything, but I know that they think this has happened because of you. And then sometimes more than once my mom has told me that your mom thinks I'm such an interesting person who's always doing some craft and how she thinks I'm. And that shocks me because my own parents don't show me that. Grace.

BYeah, she is very Impressed by you. Honestly, most of the time.

AAnd no one else in my life is.

BI'm pretty impressed, baby. Why do you think I'm not?

AI don't know. Maybe you say it and I don't internalize it. I don't know.

BI don't know. I. I get impressed when you take a good picture. I got impressed by that video you made. I were impressed when you showed me the last gouache painting you made.

AYeah, no, I was more thinking. Not about you.

BThinking about your parents.

AYeah.

BYeah, that. I mean, I think that's every child's curse.

AI think the way I think about myself is how my parents think about me. And I. I don't think they see me in the way that I want to be seen. And it's not so bad. They do obviously love me.

BI think it's very recent. I think this changed mostly from your mom. At least you mentioned this in the past about how the kind of don't talk to you about anything else but me For a while that was a thing.

AYeah. And no, but it's always been the case. Like my mom's never. I do well academically. Like, I got a 334 in the GRE, which should have been something she can be proud of. And then she gets my score wrong. She tells people I work at different companies all the time. I was. I got placed at the first company I interviewed at in college.

BBaby, you're also. Your mom has given you the signal. Like Shruti has given Choksi the signal.

AYeah.

BYou need to get hurt and move on.

AYeah. But that has damaged how I think of myself. That is the problem.

BYeah. I don't know, dude. What. How would. How would we console ourselves?

ATag. I. I'm so. I couldn't have thought something good about myself when I look at this folder.

BThat's so strange. I also used to do memes and my criteria of. I don't know, like your organization looks superior to mine. I know how I organize my stuff. And this looks. And this is commendable in my opinion, like irrespective of what it was about. So maybe it's your lens. Like you also need to change how you think about things.

AYeah, it's.

BI think like if you.

AIt's. It doesn't hurt me as much that my mom thinks of me a certain way. It hurts me that that's permanently destroyed my self confidence. That I find it much easier to think an uncharitable thing about myself than I find it to think well of myself. And I think a lot of. Because, because I think so badly of myself. I think that is why I have so much dependence on getting validation from outside. I need to hear good things from outside because I'm saying horrible things to myself inside. And that is why if someone else says something self critical, I assume it means that they are having a torturous internal process the way I have a torturous internal process. And so my immediate like knee jerk reaction is to reassure them and like demolish, like even the seed of that doubt. I'm very defensive of other people's insecurities or any hint of an insecurity.

BI mean, you've done the work, you've identified a lot of like how it comes from, what it manifests, how it affects your relationship with other people.

ABut I don't know how to fix it inside.

BBut like that is also coming. Not a lot of people have done this much as there.

AIt's also just such a blast from the past. Looking at this folder.

BYeah.

ALike these were the things that I was. I had forgotten that I was so interested in some of these things at the time.

BYeah. I also enjoy the feeling of nostalgia a lot.

AYeah.

BMore than the average person, for sure.

ABut I think the difference between how you indulge in nostalgia and how I indulge in nostalgia is you consider yourself important enough. There is some amount of, I don't know, not being self conscious or being self, self important enough that you think your past is worth documenting and publishing. Whereas I feel like.

BBut it's not. I'm not publishing it.

ANo, but like you're sort of like even the act of chronicling it.

BYeah.

AIs some kind of publishing. Like.

BI guess. But it's my loop of consciousness wanting to preserve itself. Like that's how I justify, like.

ANo, no. I'm saying I just don't have the, like I, the everything in me revolts against that idea.

BYeah. You've told me in the past, like you've had trouble with like writing or having a diary because of that, because you never want to read it again.

AYeah.

BBut then what is nostalgia for?

AYou written something like the few diary entries that I have, I still like, I enjoy looking at that. I enjoy looking at like all the little bits of past that I've collected.

BYeah.

ABut I feel so self important when I'm doing it that I don't want to do it. Like it feels like a vain act to think that this is worth documenting.

BHmm. Yeah. If I could, I would want it to be. Invisible to me.

AYeah. Like for example, when I indulge in nostalgia, it is so much more special when you do it with me me because then I'm not indulging myself by thinking oh my past is cool and I should look through it, but I'm doing it via you and therefore it is not self indulgent.

BAgain, I think we look at our past as. As different things.

ALike I mean I still go to my past all the time.

BBut why I think you we experience experience it differently. Just like how we talk about this meme folder. You look at the things that were actually happening to you or what And I look at the process like how I was thinking about that time about whatever was I was faced with and I'm that more curious about what how was I dealing with this thing thing. Then what was my thought process around this thing? I'm not less looking at. Again, I think you're also saying the similar thing where like I was more focused on myself. When I'm looking at something and you're focused on. I don't know, you're also focused on yourself.

AI think you are able to look at it objectively, whereas I'm only able to look at it critically. I can. I can. I think it's a different thing to criticize.

BMaybe. Yeah.

AI have a cyanide and happiness folder. I mean in on the positive. Sometimes when I go through this folder, it sort of reminds me that I was an interesting person on my own. That I'm not just interesting because of you.

BBut there's so much proof of it.

AI just think other people or my worries that other people don't see it that way.

BThat's just an insecurity.

AYeah, probably.

BAnd. I don't know the. You'll have to basically not care about what people say and know how you feel. There's nothing like that's the only thing you can change here. Right.

ASometimes I also believe it.

BHow Like I don't understand how that. It.

ASo we all. In so many ways though, I am confident. But then so many ways I'm not at all confident.

BBut that's like that's most people.

AThat's most people.

BIt's almost everybody. I'm not immune to it either. I also have so many scenarios in which I'm not confident about myself.

AJodi.

BYeah, I can't do everything, bro. I'm not where I think I should be. And the situation like all the things I'm not confident at are the reasons for that for not being.

AThat wasn't a full sentence.

BSomeone that wasn't a sentence, but someone's getting.

ANot really.

BDoesn't matter. Like, and even if I feel like I feel confident about everything, how does it matter? Like that. That's also, like, you can consider me an outlier case. Like, look around you. But. Right.

AYeah, but you are my closest relationship. And. On a meta level, if the. If. If a society was built on this sort of structure where society has forced everyone to be insecure. And so the way society function is that people reassure each other. If there is one outlier person who's very secure and doesn't need that reassurance and therefore also doesn't feel obligated to give it, the cycle sort of breaks down.

BUnless everyone becomes secure and then you can't go the other way.

AYeah.

BAnd how will we go to the.

AOne person becoming secure doesn't break the cycle. Like, it breaks the cycle.

BIt can induce other people. No, it breaks the cycle and causes an explosion of, like, that security.

ANot really.

BNot security. That feeling of, oh, things were not reciprocated. But those individual people, insecure people learn and update.

AI don't, for example, go towards security. Me as that person.

BYeah.

AWho's like, the first degree affected by the break in the cycle. I don't know if it's worked. Like, it's been four or five years anyway. This is not like, that's a. I don't want to go here. I'm not trying to express some. That's not this conversation at all.

BIt's very hard to believe that it's not.

AYeah, but I'm trying to abandon it. Like, I'm not interested in going down that road right now.

BHow does it.

ANo, I'm just trying to. I was more trying to examine how we break the cycle. Like, is it really one. Like, I want to be rid of it. I want to become more secure. So how do we break the cycle?

BYou want to change, so you will have to change.

AYeah, but how? Like, how do I break? How do I stop thinking of myself in the way that I've always thought of myself?

BI don't know. I gave you some tools that you could use.

ALike.

BLike not examining what you were doing, but examining how you would deal with dealing with things. And if you don't have good examples of that in the past, start making them now. Whatever situation you face in life, judge yourself on how you're facing it, not the situation itself. And would your, like, future self be happy about how you were facing things? So two things to do right there. Look at Things from the past from that perspective. And treat current life also from that perspective. I mean, there's lots of tools, but just in our very casual conversation, we got two.

AYeah.

BHere. Other things you could borrow will be from Choksi. How? Like it sounds very much like the Choksi situation. Right? Like your mom has not given you a clear hint and you're still hanging on to that hope.

AI don't think that is the problem. I think she. Her thinking badly of me has trained me to think badly of me. That is the problem that my model is now attuned to her way of thinking, which is critical towards me.

BI agree with that. I feel like it still affects you, but like whatever new memories you're generating, even those are contributing to that general feeling. So you have to first stop the bleeding. Right. So work on that first. And I think memory fades. So if you stop now, those things will gradually get out of your memory and you will have a new relationship with her. Like your definition. Like, I mean, whatever her impact on the. On your psyche verse, that will decrease. Right. So that would be a good start. There same thing for me. Whatever feelings you have towards me, you need to do exactly the same thing with me.

AI. Not even. I haven't thought about you in this whole conversation at all. You may or may not believe me, but I haven't thought of you in this whole conversation at all.

BBut you were talking about very specific hypotheticals.

AThat was more about. I was going in the direction of how to break the cycle. I wasn't going in the direction of. You don't give me validation.

BOkay, sure.

ABut yeah, I mean, like, what method of breaking the cycle actually works?

BWe should look it up. Actually, I've also not done this. Maybe there is research around this. This sounds like a common problem humans have, right? Maybe just reading about it might help. I don't know. Yeah, I'll look it up. Because this seems like insecurity is a very general pattern that you are also facing and Chokshi is also facing. Right. What is the generalized solution to insecurity? I'm sure this is what people just like. Fear exposure therapy is a particular solution to a general problem of avoidance. There must be other general solutions to the problem of insecurity too, right? But I don't know. I. I try to make you feel secure. Whenever you say that you're feeling insecure about something. I give you examples to make you. I always do this. I feel like whenever you say something that makes you insecure, I'm able to give you Counter examples right there. Right then. So maybe. I mean, yeah, I admit that I'm not the one of someone who does it.

AI'm not trying.

BI know you're not, but I'm just reminding you notice or. Like it is your insecurity speech speaking.

AIt is my insecurity.

BIt's not. Yeah, I am a silent person. But you're also making up negatives in your head rather than realizing that I am noticing the positives.

AYeah.

BI'm trying to understand, like, don't other things give you more happiness than thinking about this thing? Like, how can this be such a deep desire that induces so much sadness in your life and makes you think about it? Aren't you like, what is it that causes you to even think about this? Aren't there so many other things to witness and think about? Why think about this?

AI do not witness and think about other things. But this is also always there.

BWhy? But like it's not bring me. I'm just trying to understand why would it be there? Is it a mode of some self preservation thing? You're not getting any joy out of it?

AOf course not.

BSo why is it even being perpetuated?

AI don't know. I think it's.

BI think it's some self preservation thing. Right. Like where it makes you think about something and.

AYeah. I think, I mean in a milder form. Some amount of self consciousness.

BYeah.

AMakes you just more aware of how you present to the world and how you do things and like makes you do things better. So some amount is good.

BJust it's like worrying is good.

AWorrying is good. Yeah, you're supposed to worry. You're supposed to be a bit self conscious. So you're self aware.

BYeah.

ABut mine has taken a more extreme format. Like I think my worry that I will be torn down or turned away is also what has kept me from really applying to jobs for months. I have just not been able to apply because I remember how awful I felt.

BBut you also need to remember how great you felt when you landed the first job. So it has to be again about how you face those things.

AFelt great when I landed because the job that I wanted, that I think that I thought I had, I got turned away from.

BWhat do you mean?

AI think I was more upset. I was very upset at having been told turned out by Google and so any. I didn't. Any joy that I felt at like having gotten Dell or like having gotten Whole Foods having gotten.

BOkay, I'm talking about Bachelor time, Cisco.

AYeah, but I don't feel any.

BBut then that's what we're saying. We have to change how you're thinking about things now. No. Your current system of thinking about things is not working well for you. It's not. So clearly we need to change how you're thinking about it.

AI want to also not feel hurt. I want to, like, have a thicker skin so I can apply and be okay with getting rejected. It's okay. Everyone gets rejected. But I. I'm just so. I remember how much it sucked because it confirmed something that I worried was true. That I'm not good enough to work in a company like Google. That when I got it, it was like joy beyond belief. And then when they turned me away, despite clearing the interviews, it broke me. And I don't ever want to feel like that again.

BBaby, you need to be stronger. Like, you can't let a life. I know how, like, I'm supposed to say I empathize with you right now here, but I can't like you. You can't let life circumstances affect you this deeply.

AI know you're right, but.

BSo the very fact that you bring it up right now with so much intensity does means that you're not handling it well.

AI'm not. I know I'm failing. I just don't know how to fix it. I'm just so scared of, like, that feeling ever again.

BDude, I. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be like, not. You should subscribe to my general attitude in life, which is you don't have much free will. Like, you will be given circumstances. All you can change is what's inside your head. That is all the choice you have in this chaotic world. There's so much happening. No, seriously, think about it. There's so much happening in this chaotic world. What do you even have control over?

ABizarre thing to say in this.

BNo, but that kind of thing actually helps you here where, like, dude, this world is chaotic. You have to just take what you're given and the think about it. You're making up all the sim. Like, if you believe you have free hair, you are the one deciding what constitutes your emotions right now. Right. Then change them then. Just make them. Make them not feel that way. How?

ABaby, I just. I don't take ridiculous rejection well.

BYeah, I don't know how to change that. I'll look it up. I'll try, but I don't think there's going to be a single solution.

AOr even I think also, like, when I was applying then and I kept getting rejected because I was like, Doing it more often. Often, like I was interviewing, getting rejected. Interviewing, getting rejected. Like, I became more inured to the process. And it's also been a while so, like, that shell has gone away where I was, like, applying to 10 jobs a day. And so next day I would get 10 rejections and I was just used to it. But name.

BHonestly, I. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. There's a big chance that I'm wrong. I don't think it matters if you change job now. Like, time. I know you think I'm being.

AI mean, I don't think you're saying that as, like.

BAs a practical thing. I'm literally saying if you do stop looking for job, like, if you don't switch your jobs. I don't see.

AI mean, that this is coming from some very, like.

BYeah. I mean, you feel this coming from.

AA very different place. This is not coming from a.

BYeah. Yeah.

ARegardless of whether the market's dying or not, the endeavor for a better job is an endeavor in self improvement and therefore should be pursued for its own merit.

BI know. I'm just. And I think. And I've always rallied for it.

AYeah.

BJust to be clear, I know I've always rallied.

AI know that this tangent is coming from, like.

BYeah.

AI'm just saying that other fringe thing, which, like, right now you don't have to.

BNow think about it that much. If you don't want to. You can just. In my opinion.

ANo, no, I don't think you also truly feel that way.

BYeah. It's obviously some pro. I would obviously want you to be working with better peers, earning more money, obviously. Yes. Yes, I would like that if that would happen. But now I'm less bothered about it.

AI mean, also, I'm not doing it for you or I'm not doing it because of what you think about it. Like I said, it's an endeavor in self improvement.

BImprovement.

AAnd I want to pursue.

BI always encourage that you should be striving.

AYeah. And regardless of you, like, I'm. I want to do it because I want to do it.

BYeah.

AAnd the only thing stopping me has been the fear of rejection.

BAnd how.

AIt, like, it makes it very easy for me to believe the worst things about myself.

BYou can obviously, like, also consider, like, medical intervention, like medicine for helping. Like there are. I think people use medicines to overcome exactly these kinds of problems. Right.

AYeah.

BI don't know. It could be antidepressants or like some kind of. Maybe even Adderall or. I have not done the research, but, like, to get out of thought patterns. That's what I've read about the drug that I was prescribed, Sertraline. It has a different name in India. That's what I read. It stunts your emotional range, so it doesn't allow you to. If you are prone to going into, like, really bad negative thought loops, it just stunts them so you can't really feel much. And that stunts you in other parts of your life. Also, that you would preferably not have stunts. Want it like your sex drive or like your enthusiasm for things or. Yeah. Passion for a movie that you're watching. But maybe to get out of a generally negative direction. That floor flooring could help on both sides. I don't know. You should consider it seriously. If you're really unhappy about these things and want change, you have to make change. Just continuing existing in your life won't change those things. Right. I know it's hard. Like, even it's not hard.

AI'm. I'm not an anti medicine person.

BNo, no, no. Not just medicine, but doing change is hard. I mean, medicine is the easiest form of it then, like, because you just.

AMedicine's the easiest form because with the least amount of personal work you get.

BIt'S like a banger pill. But yeah, it still won't work by itself.

AYeah, it won't work by itself. I mean, yeah, I'll consider medicine, but I really think it's about, like, me being able to admit some things to myself and then just getting on with it. And I think this is a barrier that I can cross without medical intervention. I mean, I had.

BI mean, I. I don't think medical intervention will help you hit that point. What you're talking about feels like, oh, I hit a certain point and at that point it's a breaking point. And then I just go back. Medical intervention won't allow that. Like, because it'll just stunt your feeling about that thing.

AYeah.

BSo it won't really be. It'll get your life back on track.

ABut I don't. The reason I'm like, being resistant to the idea is I don't want to make that another step before I start doing the work.

BYeah, yeah, yeah.

AUse that as an excuse to say, okay, now it'll take me a month or more to get that prescription and have that medication take effect and whatever. Whatever. And so I can't do anything for another month. I don't want that to become like.

BThat'S a good attitude to have. Like, you. Yeah, you're right. You can make change happen one day. I. Yeah, you do it then you do it like you start. I start thought one day that I will be. I will exercise every day and then you start that day like whatever day but you start the only way to do it is.

AMy mom used to say.

BBut yeah. What do you have in mind when you say you'll do it? If you don't have anything in mind then it's better to think about the medicine.

ANo, I meant the job process.

BFor the job process. Oh I thought or generally we to switch real. No, I think we talked about a.

ALot that it's blocking me right now. And if the job process. Yay. Minor insecurity, unhappiness. It's not blocking my life. It makes me slightly more unhappy than I could be. But I like I really don't think I have. I don't really have an eating disorder. I don't have like any severe like life stunting trauma.

BBut that's strange because why is this blocking? Like you've never expressed but you don't strike me as someone who wants to excel at their career or like that find personal words in that.

AYeah, I rebel against the the idea that any of my personal worth is tied to my job.

BThen why does this upset you? Why is this.

ABut I. I'm an ambitious person. I do like taking some amount of pride in what I do and where. Where I do it. Why is this surprising to you? You.

BI don't know. I never felt that way about you at least I mean we always consider ambitiousness in. Yeah, I'm being ambitious is doing something.

AI'm not as I'm. I don't strive as much as you for sure.

BI don't know. I've never just gotten the ambitious. Can you give me an example like maybe I'm just not remembering right now.

AYeah. I don't care to give you examples. Honestly. Very insulting that you say that.

BNo, I'm just quite upset right now. I'm just stating that I didn't think of you as an ambitious person.

AYeah. And that's not a very nice thing to say.

BI think it's the truth. I don't know if it's nice somewhat. Because that's why I don't understand this. This is hurting you so much. Like other things I can still understand because I think you put value to those things. This thing I don't think you put that much value.

AI think you might have that impression because in my conversations with you I'm always asking you to devalue your job. Maybe that's why and that is why I think maybe you've wrongly extrapolated that it means I devalue jobs because you.

BNever even told me to be more ambitious. Like someone who is ambitious would want to see others also very ambitious. And you like, I think I don't.

AMeddle or comment on other people's affairs like their jobs. I don't know. I have. I know.

BYou do. Tell me, right? Like you just. Okay, never mind.

AI don't know. Believe what you want to believe.

BI mean, I'm not believing anything. I'm just telling you I'm confused. Compared to other things.

AIt is not subsidizada hurt, but that is the one thing that is a blocker in my life right now. Yeah. In my circle, Sajan, I am one of the most intelligent and accomplished people. And it's very hurtful that you don't think of me that way.

BI think you're confusing two things. You're confusing this displacement and velocity. Like I'm talking about the derivative where I want to see you grow even more than however much accomplished you are. I don't care about that absolute factor.

AI'm using as a marker of ambition. I have accomplished what I've accomplished because I've been ambitious and I've worked hard and I've achieved something things.

BBut just because you did all that. Yes, you were ambitious in reaching that goal. I agree you were very ambitious, but that doesn't translate to where you're headed or where I see that you're interested in heading.

ASo you are saying past behavior is no indication of future behavior.

BYeah, past three years behavior is. Yeah. Effect diminish whatever you did in.

ASo basically you're saying, you know things in my life where I have shown ambition, but you are ignoring them right now.

BNo, I'm saying, yes, you were ambitious. No, in the last three years, you've not shown many signs of I'm being ambitious. How are those two contradictory things that.

ASomething you want to say? Why is this a point you want to belabor?

BI'm not. Like you just asked me why you think I don't know why we're fighting. I have made clear what I wanted to say, and I. I won't repeat it like you don't want me to repeat it. You were arguing with me, which is.

AWhy I was stating why you said when we. This argument began that you never thought of me as ambitious. And now we have come to a point where you're saying you were ambitious. And now in the last three years.

BYou shown us when I Okay, I misspoke then.

AYeah, so clearly when I said there are examples of me being accomplished, which.

BAre evidences, maybe all the recent bias that I have.

AYeah, but then that's clearly something you're like, choosing to ignore, right?

BNo, I'm not choosing to ignore it. Human. Like, I didn't choose to ignore it. I just forgot it.

AThat is also kind of cruel, right?

BI mean, I think we're just arguing about nothing right now.

AI mean, to you it might be nothing, but it was quite hurtful to me to hear you say, I don't think of you as ambitious.

BThat is not an inactive.

AI said something like that to you?

BYeah, it would hurt me. And I would like, yeah, but I would also accept that this person's perception of me is that I would be like, okay, bro. Like, yeah, okay, you think I'm not ambitious.

AOkay, bro is a more hurtful reaction because it closes the conversation. And I tried to, like, at least keep the conversation open and you wouldn't have reacted as, okay, bro. I'm okay with you having this. I'm okay with my girlfriend having this entirely inaccurate understanding of me.

BBut it's not inaccurate. That's not what we're debating, right, though it's not inaccurate.

AIt.

BI think it's accurate. Like, right now, I don't see you as such an.

ASuch a hurtful thing to say.

BI don't care if it's hurtful. It's my honest opinion right now.

AAnd then you change your. And then your opinion loses weight. Because initially it was. I have never seen you be.

BNo, that was never my opinion. Maybe I expressed. Stressed whatever my opinion was in those words. And yeah, dimensionality reduction happens in that process. But yeah, I'm saying I misspoke. Maybe my last three years, I've not felt that. That's all I'm trying to say. And that dominates my worldview right now. Right. Like, I'm not always thinking about the past.

AAnd is your. Is your necessity to emphasize the point that your opinion is accurate more. More important than the cruelty of what you're saying to me? Is it so important to establish that what you're saying is accurate instead of letting it go because of what a cruel thing to say it is?

BNo, I don't agree with that. Yeah, you're right. Like, I think discussing with the accuracy of the statement is more important than cruelty because cruelty is subjective to whoever's listening, whereas the accurateness, such a.

AIt's such an unempathetic way of thinking because if the tables were Turned, you wouldn't even be capable of sitting here and having this conversation with me if I said something so hurtful and that that was so reflective of how blind I was to you. If I said something equivalent to you, you would be incapable of sitting at this table with me.

BSo you're really you. So that means. Wait, you mean to say that you will say something very contradictory about how I feel about myself, Right.

ASomething that is not true. That makes you feel like I don't contrib.

BYeah. So you are saying in the last three years you've been an ambitious person. You feel that way, right? That's what you're saying?

AYes. I think of myself as an ambitious person. Yes.

BEven now, like, even now I think.

AOf myself as an ambitious person.

BAnd that's why what I'm saying is hurting you so much.

AYeah. Because it makes me feel like you either intentionally are ignoring my accomplishments and evidence that I'm ambitious, or you are just blind to it.

BSo then can you show me.

AI don't. I don't care about what window you set for ambition. That like if you've not done anything in three years, I cannot think of you as an ambitious person. But that is.

BIt has to mean more than just what your mental state is, right?

ANo, I don't care opinion. I don't care if you in your benchmark are.

BBut your. The whole discussion was about what I think about you. And I can only think things about you, about what comes up, like what I can observe. Right. If there is no external feeling of your personal ambition.

AYou know what? I don't think I have to have this conversation. I don't think I need to put myself through this. I don't need this. I think bad enough things about myself already. I don't need to hear them.

15 Feb '26

https://x.com/buccocapital/status/2022782677523345670

I thought Dwarkesh had a good point that software engineering is the only job where the full context needed to do the job is available to an AI agent (via the code base) And I didn’t think Dario had a good answer for why automating other jobs will be as easy

15 Feb '26

Feb 15 '26, Sunday

Feb 16 '26, Monday

Feb 17 '26, Tuesday

Open this page on desktop.