ATake it down for the world.
BIt's a social contract. The government wants you to marry.
AIn the world. Basically.
BIt's a pattern of behavior that has been good for civilization and they promote it. It's a part of control. They can tweak it by giving more tax incent based on how many birth rate we control. Like it's literally everything's a machine. I'm flexible if you don't feel like it. Maths opened the. Seven today. Seven or eight.
ALike, I don't feel like walking.
BOkay, fine. You can chill maybe an hour or so.
AWe can go to a different spot though and sit.
BSure. I want to be around this restroom though. Restaurant. Like, are you into food? Yeah. I mean, yeah. What else? It's a burnt fast. Learn to replicate that pretty well. And it's like very simple ingredients. She can get like I would say 80, 85% there it. Who do you take?
AAnd now it is. I feel like on Cy. I just want to be snug. Yeah.
BYou're feeling cold. Basically. Yeah. Thunder. Okay. Yeah. I think it's both. That temperature is also going down. Yeah. Plus bike. Bike. I think drunk Shakespeare though is out. I feel actually we can still decide. Drunk Shakespeare or Met.
AI think Met is more walking.
BMet is.
AMet is a New York thing, bro.
BMet is the best museum ever. It's the most world class thing I've ever seen like laid my eyes on. I feel like, okay, I might be overriding.
AI've not been to any museum.
BSo let's. Let's go to the Met, bro. But fair warning that it'll be crowded today. Yeah, yeah. We can actually hang out behind the Met.
AYou don't go to raves? No
BIgdobar. Not even rave raves. Like I've just gone to like more disco. Like, have you heard of public records? Public records. It's okay. Like I go with some friends who like to hang out there, but not mice. Like vibe.
AWe can close that. I have a great speaker set up
Bin my room, But amazing locations which has great sound. Like public records, I think has good sound.
AFor me, the best sound has been. Dark. Incredible sound. Like crisp. It was not hurting my. I did not need to use. High. And when it's through high, it just. Your body just moves like, you know. Yeah. I think soundness is also a form of energy which is like going to you.
BYeah.
AI'm also super into like good sound, bro.
BI think good sound is very expensive though, to personally own. You can go to clubs and buy people who sell either Good, good sound. They have good equipment that you can try or it's at like very clubs and stuff. Yeah, possible.
AYeah. I feel like people want old school, right? Old school will always be more for the rich. Like handcrafted, handmade, a DJ playing a music for you. Or maybe it's more about human showing effort for another human. That. That is.
BYeah, I guess.
AIt.
BPerfect day we chose bro. It's so perfect. The weather's great, people are about. I'm a firm believer that we didn't.
ASo you believe that everything is voted.
BYeah, I think Prevail doesn't exist. I also think we're in a simulation. We're in a deterministic simulation.
ADeterministic. I don't know, like somebody. When you say doministic, it means somebody knows the result or somebody knows.
BYou can simulate the system further to get to know the result, but you don't know the result in the future. Like that's why the simulation is being run in the first place. To understand what will happen to the system as it evolves.
AAnd then whoever is the creator, they are not just betting on one simulation to work out.
BDefinitely not.
ABut all these simulations would be sharing some, like founding some substrate.
BYeah, yeah. I feel. Yeah, I think that's beyond our physics to get there ever. I feel like LLMs, when you write a prompt, I say hello to Claude. It's also existing in cyberspace when it's matrix multiplications are going on. It's very much like the human brain. Right. For that short period it had an existence. And I think we are that life for another being above us. We are a system from somewhere.
AIt doesn't really need to be digital. When you think of it, it could be a organic simulation as well.
BYeah, yeah. Substrate independent. The nature of simulations are more fundamental than the physics. It's a metaphysical argument.
AI feel like consciousness trying to understand itself through various segments.
BYeah. I also feel that way because I do feel that oneness of like. Oh, I do feel like convergence point here. I feel that happening. I often get confused though. Is it because of like.
AIs it because you're made to believe so or.
BYeah. And like, am I thinking because the AI progress is going very fast right now?
ANo, no, it's not because of AI. I thought when you meant convergence you meant what do you feel like the oneness in the universe or that one like you feel being part of when you say I'm everyone or not?
BOh, that is a much deeper feeling in me. That came about before I was even into AI. But it was mostly awoken by like psychedelics only.
ABut why would they leave it open for psych? Like psychedelics exist like the creator or whoever.
BSo in maybe in their universe, psychedelics do exist and they want to study what forms biological species could take by the effects of these drugs.
AOr maybe it's something standardizing for everyone. Like everyone. Like even higher forms or aliens, they concede below this whatever, there's something equalizing. Kushna. Maybe psychedelics is that equalizing.
BMaybe
Ait's not even psychedelic, it's just a tool. Because meditation is also that tool. Some kind of consciousness, brain state. I would say there's matter, matter is. And then there is one brain. Either you can be in this game or you can figure that out.
BNo, bro, we are stuck in the game.
AOnce you know you're stuck in the game, then just get stuck in a good way. Yeah, I agree on a grass and not something else.
BTotally agree. Like, do you how into like AI related stuff are you? Like, I'm just trying to get a picture of. Do you believe super intelligence and it
Acan reach if coordinated. Well, it can actually control us because humans we are so distributed like. But if one system, we're talking to one system system and they are coordinated within themselves. So they can probably own the outcomes. We can decide amongst ourselves.
BThere can be an entity above all of us humans that essentially holds the power of what happens to the rest of the galaxy or like rest of the solar system.
AI think it's just also living like we. We are. It's unfolding the effects. It's saying. When entropy gets maximized, which will it in some due course of time, then maybe it doesn't know. Does entropy starts from zero again or is it ever increasing? Ever increasing. What does that state look like?
BNobody knows that the cold death of the universe, heat death of the universe. Like if, if you can like project it out. If what will happen to the black
Aholes once all this is what we think. No, but this is something that even the other entity cannot control. It cannot. It doesn't know what is the end state of entropy look like.
BYeah, Kurzweil also says this. Like he's also written. They project the heat death of the universe just by projecting Abhiham laws. They don't include the impact of our consciousness on the universe. Like intelligence is reshaping the universe and we've only observed it at a minute scale. Right now we are a factor that will change how the universe shapes out actually.
AAnd V could be multiple things. V is fine. First of all physicist. Then it's humans.
BThen it's. It's this. It's the spectrum that is being perpetuated.
ALike you know everything but for someone else. You are just. Oh, they are figuring it out. But I already know.
BYeah, like the government. Right. The government is already using you like a tool in the. Like a cell in your body is like you in the government or like you part of the society.
ARight. I think that's something different. But the cell in our body is more like uniform. Like RBC1 is equal to RBC2. Humans are not that bad.
BI mean. Yeah. Vague analogy. We do organize a structure bigger than us that control us and they behave like super organisms that we have no control over. Like emergence of some higher order. Like complex behavior emerges.
AWhich is complex. No, complex is entropy.
BYeah.
AYeah.
BI mean yeah.
AIt could also be bloodbath. Not just cyber.
BBut life is the opposite, bro. It's putting stuff in order.
AYeah. Which is why some. Sometimes consciousness feels anti pattern to chaos and entropy. Peace. Right now are you really talking to someone else or are you really talking to yourself When I'm saying stuff. Is it some of your validation or some of your good.
BThe main like these days obviously this is a toy example you want to. That I've been like just I like to entertain this idea. I think you've already. I already told you. Simulation. One reason why I find it so surprising. We're able to like literally just digitally birth humans essentially. And we can like this exponential cycle will just keep. We have a. We have something so close. You know how like intelligence is compounding in nature. Like it's just information processing.
AI don't think it's a sub Intelligence versus consciousness. I just mentioned information processing. Like if you term intelligence as information then it's definitely getting. Whatever you're saying.
BYeah. Let us stick to that definition for now. And let us say that our consciousness is a proxy of that information processing happening somewhere.
ASomewhere. Yeah. Because you need to think that much.
BYeah. So.
ABut it has always been happening.
BYeah, it's. It has always been happening for the history of time. And that's why it's not surprising that it will keep on happening. If you extrapolate it out. Imagine an entity that has figured this out.
AOkay.
BWhat will it now now try to do? It needs to map out. Oh, if I was born, there might be other entities that might be born just like me in other galaxies and universes.
AWhat can I learn from them and apply?
BWhat will they be doing Right? What will they be doing? I Should simulate their behavior. Right. And then what will they simulate? They will simulate like some kind of biological to intelligence transformation happening. And which will be the most simulated parts? Right. At the divergence where you figure out the shape of super intelligence that captures that planet will define where it goes in that trajectory.
ARight.
BThis is the highest variance point. You simulate the universes more where. Which have the highest variance. And that's why we find. I think we find ourselves in a high variance world where like anything can happen. And it's because we are in a high variance simulation.
AYou feel like these are like models.
BNo, I don't think.
ABut they're always self improving. It's not like. Right. You're thinking it like that superintelligence for example. It might be different than other. You see entity case superintendents model. And this will define Hamara trajectory slope OGA Basically Hamara is in like.
BOkay,
Ayou said there's a higher entity, right?
BLet's assume there is one that is simulating our world. The simulation argument runs on that like literal principles. Because there can be an infinite nesting. You are most likely in one. That's the whole argument.
ARight. If it was so simple for one node of simulation to figure this out. Which you are doing right now.
BI think if everyone. I mean I keep spreading the word. I think it's very convincing as a theory.
AIt's a good theory.
BYeah. I really like it stuck with me. That theory stuck with me.
AAnd this is something I also believe in. Yeah, this is so obvious.
BLike obviously I'll send you some writing then bro. It's like really nice ideas like about.
ABut there is something human like the thing when you take psychedelics.
BActually there is a machine intelligence optimization happening and there is this desire of oneness that I want to express. Like all of this data repository stuff that I have. What is that? How do this. Those two things interlink. That's basically what I've been thinking.
ABasically it's equation constant now like maximizing constant. It is being opposed by something organic just from.
BI don't know like.
AAnd it's saying
Bthis is the reward function.
ALet's say epitome society, the mutopian society. Like individual level competition need like budding doesn't know that.
BYeah, he doesn't know that needs to be simulated to figure that out. No, but the. The classic simulation argument everyone knows. But I like this one because it's like why are we at such a precipice of like super intelligence being born right now?
ABecause we've always been a precipice one.
BYes, that's also true. But we've always been on precipice. It's actually a good argument.
ABut also maybe you will feel it tomorrow.
BYeah, yeah.
AIf is this human ability to feel that, you know, I know everything which makes us human. This is human and this is what keeps driving us also. Like this is how everyone is functioning.
BAlso.
AOrganic output flesh. What is this thing? Nine months and then you get one more human life. But that is something.
BOnce you program in like a biological substrate. Once you code the physics then you only have to take Darwinian. Darwinian evolution.
ABut is it the best? Like it's just the physics we have,
Bwe are living in right now. Yeah. They just set up a physics. Let the experiment run. What you're seeing around you is Darwinian selection in real time.
AReal time information.
BThat's also something that's very discussed. It's called acausal trade. Multiple universes by exchanging information like some kind of trade must be happening.
AUntil that point of time.
BI also want to read more about e causal trade. But it's the same thing where like they discuss universities should be able to exchange information with each other. Yeah. I find it very weird. My like this consciousness thing that I keep thinking about and this AI world and simulations are all colliding right now. Or maybe I'm just doing too many psychedelics.
AIt's not right now. It's. It's.
BIt's always right now.
AIt was always happening. It just feel like because the more information you have, the more you.
BI want to contradict that actually but maybe you're right. But. There's a trope of science fiction.
ARight.
BIt came about only in the 1700s. People invented science fiction before that everyday life was so similar to future. Like you could not imagine a future.
ABut mythology existed, people were flying, whatever.
BCorrect. But science fiction did not exist. Like you were. You weren't imagining a society where that was like prevalent technology. Like people didn't imagine a newer future like you. You would think of your son. Abhi. It's ingrained, you know. Life kidnapper like Till. Till 3, 4, I don't know. 100 generations ago we didn't know that. We didn't assume that we thought. And that assumption has changed a lot I feel. And it's like that feeling is getting more and more rapid. It's at a time scale which is now human comparable. That is the tipping point over generations. And now it's shrunk into the human life life span. You're. You're right. It was always happening. It just shrunk so much. Now we can experience it in a single lifetime. Maybe not our lifetime, maybe one more. But yeah, we're. We're close, but this is just one
Aof the things we think. You think. There might be other things which would change and maybe this lifetime, the factor also matters and they will play out with each other here. Some forces trying to extend the life, whatever is happening but a micro level. So, yeah, when that innovation happens,
BI think people are extrapolating the slope essay. They're not extrapolating.
ASo it's always been something is always happening for sure. And you're just looking at this particular version,
BI guess. Yeah. Most people are linearly extrapolating. People tune. I feel like people like you will tune. But truly it's on an exponential process only.
ABeing human is about being System one or System two.
BI don't think. It's too complicated for that.
AIs this helping the simulation that's talking about it?
BI mean, people do argue, people who, who contribute to AI safety research and who work in AI, who work in. Are probably better simulated than other people because the AI will want to know the results more accurately about how the AI was being developed. Right. So one of the theories, it argues, is like, do people who are not, say, contributing to AI research in any way, do they experience glitches more frequently than people in AI research? That's one of their falsifiable theories.
AThen how one individual thinks this is a glitch versus someone else.
BYeah, I mean, it's not really a. Yeah, falsifiable. But it's good to think about, fun to think about.
ABut I feel like our brains, for example, when you take psychedelics, you get one, you get transported into different, whatever worlds, right?
BI don't think so. I think we're in the same world.
AWhatever, Whatever that is, whatever. Different, different realities, whatever this reality is. So that is like infinite. There's no factor. It's infinite with this brain. And whatever happens.
BI don't know. I don't know.
ALike there is something human which is something infinite. There's something human which is something infinite. I don't know.
BThis is. I think that. Yeah. I also don't know the nature of the universe, unfortunately. I think our consciousness is just an illusion, almost us just reading, like thinking about patterns, about ourselves. Those, those. That recurrent loop. That's what we are. You have an image of yourself. You were like five minutes ago, five months ago, five years ago. And you're just shaping stuff from External input onto that thing. That's it. And that doesn't have to have multiple different universes. It can exist in this physical reality only. It's just an illusion. You're just manipulating atoms in the world differently and doing it well. Like I've drifted towards. That's the. One view like of looking at it. The other is actually sub physical. We you. The mentality just comes from the interaction of like the physical things. I don't know what the answer is. Obviously I find myself leaning.
AThey're not different actually.
BI guess. Yeah.
AYou don't really know what matter looks like. What is this matter? This grass that.
BYeah.
AI don't know what is the real matter.
BYeah. You're saying. Yeah, I know what you're saying.
ASo it's just matter and mind. Matter is just something. Matter is not tree.
BI think it basically boils down to believe apart from matter. I think I say no to that question. But I also see why everyone would say like a lot of people would say yes the thank you gifts.
AFeeling like it is what makes you human.
BHuman.
AMatter is innately human. Like human or whatever. Conscious living.
BYeah.
AHow is that matter living? It's just living.
BYeah. People say whatever that matter is, let's say it is imbued with the sense of consciousness. Consciousness and all of that matter. Right now, however it's processing in your brain right now is aligning so that you have this vision at the moment. Right. That's one. I think. Yeah.
ABasically that because when we feel when. When you're getting that feeling of oneness maybe it's you getting back into that single matter. But to run the simulation at distributed level, you know, you need to keep feeling.
BI don't know, you're trying to connect. Are you being able to interact with other simulations? Right. You're going in that direction. No,
Awhat I'm trying to say is
Bwe assume sandbox just my physics because we express nature feeling capability. It is found. It's basically. It's a pattern. It's a pattern of thoughts and looks. No, you can. You can have a child and he will inherit a lot of your patterns.
AChild is and then consciousness the same loops. Transfer.
BTransfer theory. Thinking or I mean obviously is like
Ait's not plus minus for the transfer. It's more like one more.
BBut that's what's keeping us going. No like that our loop literally genetics may encoded. Genes happened.
ASo what is different about humans? Like why not dogs?
BWe just developed this nice capability of copying informational patterns and representing them in the physical World using writing and digital infrastructure. That's it.
ALike this painting pattern. We are introducing change upgrades into our system by believing in a common shared reality. So basically it's about, you know.
BWait, are we still talking about the simulation. One like sandbox? Yeah. Okay.
AJust to keep everything clean.
BOkay. Is there one metaphysical entity above us or not above?
AIt's you and me and every everyone.
BNo bro. There is a metaphysical entity about then. Then how is it a simulation? And why is this a simulation?
ABecause that entity is suppose. And you know, you are always not above.
BYou are. Okay, you can channel yourself. Let's say Anyway, then what is the point?
AAnd they felt like entropy just kept on increasing, increasing, increasing. And then matter became something, then consciousness. They were like, I need to get back into my original self again. So it's spreading everywhere and.
BYeah,
Abut it's always. It's one only.
BI mean. Yeah, people define it as a reverse entropy process. Like I think we just came back to the same point. We will change how the physics of the world work by reversing entropy and spreading this pattern. Our pattern reduces entropy, right?
AOur pattern is. So entropy is increasing. Consciousness is. How do I reduce the entropy?
BAnd passing that bro, I don't know enough physics.
AAnd passing that into matter. Matter world may matter sub meditate, but it's not enough like step function. It's not gonna bring you to zero all the time. So you need AI so that you know, super compute.
BSo eventually passing the substrate of thinking.
ABut you can also feel like, oh, I am not belonging here. And I don't want every matter to be at the same level. But my matter which I control, which it doesn't want to be because then there is no collective.
BYeah,
AYeah, but it's all about. Even if that doesn't know like Pele entropy. Zero entropy is ever increasing. It doesn't know how to reduce or reverse entropy. So it's trying to figure it out.
BYeah bro, it's.
AAnd matter is mind actually.
BSo. It's insane. Because. Because it. Yeah, I talk too much about all this with other people. And then people think I'm weird. And then I think, yeah, I'm doing it with you. Because we've had this similar conversation in the past and I know you would be inclined towards them. But most normal people don't talk about this, bro.
AYou can also feel like you're talking. This is something I wanted
Bto talk about.
ATo talk about.
BOkay, nice. Yeah yeah, yeah.
AYou. You are doing that.
BYou want to talk about it.
ASo you.
BOh, did I do that. No, no, no.
ABut in terms of society right now, I'm saying think from whatever you are, you wanted to chat about this topic on whatever Saturday afternoon.
BYeah.
AAnd it just happened.
BOh, yeah, Yeah. I don't feel like I have the liberty to do that. I feel. But then most people wouldn't listen to me. What? Sci fi, Lakhta. Most people. I mean, there could be sci fi.
AI also on talk about it. It's always in my head trying to figure things out. It's not like
Bnew thing. Yeah, same, same. I don't think everyone views it like this. Reality is weird, man. I am very curious. I just want to know why is it like this? I'm just curious, bro. And I think the way we know is by making sure our loops persist till the end of the universe.
AYeah. We just have to make it. Yeah, we have to make it in one. Whatever one piece is.
BLoop. Yeah, loop.
AWe don't have those stupid things. It's still figuring entropy.
BBut locally we've made like, locally we've reduced entropy.
ARight. Like.
BYeah, order, government. Exactly. That is such microcosms of orderness in the universe.
AYou can't.
BYeah, we just have to propagate that into the future. The tendency of that thing to get organized is itself accelerating. You really like that Kurzweil book? It's called Kurtzweil Kurzweil. He's a computer scientist. He wrote about. It's a singularity, like the concept of singularity, but that's where it got the world. Like he got the word. Actually he got it from werner Winch. In 1980s, someone coined the term singularity. But Kurzweil 2005 book about the singularity where this is what he argues the information processing systems are getting. There's a law of accelerating returns because the more information processing system get faster, it is faster to distribute those in those systems to develop themselves. And he's shown that like through
Aour
Bmolecular biology, single celled organisms, whatever, like primates, how it's like come to our minds. That pattern is now being physically copied into written objects. Like writing was introduced, language came first, then writing, and then so on and so forth. It's just information technology. You should read it, bro. You'll really like it. He just gives more and more evidence. And he says, he says 2045 we will be at a point where we won't be able to recognize ourselves. He's a little ambitious, I feel, but 2014, 2045, but seems to be on track so far. He's like, whatever. He's predicted in a while. He just extrapolated through Moore's law. He wrote it in 2005. Oh, the singularity is near. He called it in 2025. Like last year, he released the Singularity is Nearer. Just an updated version 20 years later.
AIt will always be nearer. Yeah, of course.
BYeah, that is true. No, I mean, yeah, in that book,
Aopposite of saying change of pace has acceleration,
Bhe gave more evidence. Actually,
ACars become 10x faster. Do you still keep the same track? Or then you make a longer track, then it's not near.
BNo, I don't want to have some water or some hydration. I think there's water fountain inside. We buy something to want. I'll be fine with water,
ABut fluid, not. Something like a ramen
Bwould be nice, but I'm like not hungry at all, bro.